Comments on: Review of “Walk, Talk & Learn French” http://l2mastery.com/featured-articles/review-of-walk-talk-learn-french Tips, Tools & Tech for Learning ANY Language Fast Wed, 15 Dec 2010 23:09:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: jf http://l2mastery.com/featured-articles/review-of-walk-talk-learn-french/comment-page-1#comment-794 jf Sat, 15 May 2010 08:10:40 +0000 http://l2mastery.com/?p=1078#comment-794 Mark, Thank you for your thoughtful rebuttal. Though we may disagree on some points, I do think Radio Lingua materials are well-produced and act as a good addition to the rapidly growing pool of "freemium", high-quality language learning products available online today. I definitely understand the practical limitations of filming on-site and thank you guys for making the effort to provide authentic, on-the-street examples of French (and other languages on Radio Lingua). Have you considered paying folks who live locally to record materials and then FTP them to you? With regard to grammar study, it is a hotly debated issue among bloggers, teachers, and foreign language learning content creators (as I'm sure you're aware.) But as always, it comes down to what works best (or perhaps "feels" best) for individual learners. I still believe that an overly conscious approach to language learning—which is the norm across nearly all language materials, whether used online, or in public schools, universities, or cram schools—is the root cause of most people's aversion to (and inability to master) foreign languages. That said, interest in (and enjoyment of) the content is king, as it leads to spending more time with the language and higher retention of what one hears. I know that many people enjoy your programs, which means your efforts are leading more people to spend more time with foreign languages. For that, I thank you, and wish you luck with your continued efforts to create high quality foreign language learning materials. P.S. I think you will enjoy this debate between Steve Kaufmann (creator of LingQ.com) and Vincent Pace (Street-Smart Language). They both make excellent points about the role of grammar study. <a href="http://www.streetsmartlanguagelearning.com/2010/05/role-of-grammar-live-debate-with-steve_11.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.streetsmartlanguagelearning.com/2010/0...</a> Mark,

Thank you for your thoughtful rebuttal. Though we may disagree on some points, I do think Radio Lingua materials are well-produced and act as a good addition to the rapidly growing pool of "freemium", high-quality language learning products available online today.

I definitely understand the practical limitations of filming on-site and thank you guys for making the effort to provide authentic, on-the-street examples of French (and other languages on Radio Lingua). Have you considered paying folks who live locally to record materials and then FTP them to you?

With regard to grammar study, it is a hotly debated issue among bloggers, teachers, and foreign language learning content creators (as I'm sure you're aware.) But as always, it comes down to what works best (or perhaps "feels" best) for individual learners. I still believe that an overly conscious approach to language learning—which is the norm across nearly all language materials, whether used online, or in public schools, universities, or cram schools—is the root cause of most people's aversion to (and inability to master) foreign languages.

That said, interest in (and enjoyment of) the content is king, as it leads to spending more time with the language and higher retention of what one hears. I know that many people enjoy your programs, which means your efforts are leading more people to spend more time with foreign languages. For that, I thank you, and wish you luck with your continued efforts to create high quality foreign language learning materials.

P.S. I think you will enjoy this debate between Steve Kaufmann (creator of LingQ.com) and Vincent Pace (Street-Smart Language). They both make excellent points about the role of grammar study.

http://www.streetsmartlanguagelearning.com/2010/0...

]]> By: Mark Pentleton http://l2mastery.com/featured-articles/review-of-walk-talk-learn-french/comment-page-1#comment-793 Mark Pentleton Sat, 15 May 2010 05:35:26 +0000 http://l2mastery.com/?p=1078#comment-793 John, thanks for your review of Walk Talk and Learn French. We always find it interesting to read comments on our shows by listeners/viewers. With Walk, Talk and Learn we've tried to create something of a different take on grammar and have used authentic examples found on the streets of Paris. The feedback has suggested that this context certainly engages learners. Admittedly 'moving back to the studio' to allow me to go over the grammar points can sometimes give the impression of interrupting Pierre-Benoît's 'flow'. I fully agree that input is an extremely important element of language learning, and bringing further examples of a particular pattern into the one show would be ideal. However, this is difficult, and perhaps less desirable, for a number of reasons: 1. As you point out, we are creating content for 'customers', although the WTLF episodes are freely available. We are responding to requests of viewers and listeners to our other materials who seem to enjoy the combination of example and explanation. 2. It is surprisingly difficult to find examples which suit the context, even in the streets of Paris! The fact that we're not based in France and that, as a very small company, our development budgets are limited, means that we have to film a series in a very short timescale. 3. The short form of a podcast lasting just a few minutes and the restrictions of filming live in the streets of Paris or in the métro means that we are actually quite limited in terms of locations and access to examples within the timescale of filming. 4. Finally, I doubt we'd be able to keep up with Pierre-Benoît if we really let him run wild!! You suggest that over study of grammar is what leads most would-be language-learners to failure, and I think I'd be the first to say that sitting for hours on end with a grammar book isn't likely to lead to oral fluency. However we don't intend WTLF to be a complete solution to language-learning, rather an alternative way to learn about some of the patterns of a language and encourage learners to seek out examples if they are in a location where the language is spoken. If they are not, then hopefully WTLF provides some examples of these patterns for learners who can't get this otherwise, and it provides the guidance for independent learners which we feel is important, and which learners have requested. We are currently developing more video materials including a second series of Walk, Talk and Learn and some of these materials take a different approach, trying to address the different types of learners who use our materials. We'll be interested to hear your views. John, thanks for your review of Walk Talk and Learn French. We always find it interesting to read comments on our shows by listeners/viewers.

With Walk, Talk and Learn we've tried to create something of a different take on grammar and have used authentic examples found on the streets of Paris. The feedback has suggested that this context certainly engages learners. Admittedly 'moving back to the studio' to allow me to go over the grammar points can sometimes give the impression of interrupting Pierre-Benoît's 'flow'.

I fully agree that input is an extremely important element of language learning, and bringing further examples of a particular pattern into the one show would be ideal. However, this is difficult, and perhaps less desirable, for a number of reasons:

1. As you point out, we are creating content for 'customers', although the WTLF episodes are freely available. We are responding to requests of viewers and listeners to our other materials who seem to enjoy the combination of example and explanation.

2. It is surprisingly difficult to find examples which suit the context, even in the streets of Paris! The fact that we're not based in France and that, as a very small company, our development budgets are limited, means that we have to film a series in a very short timescale.

3. The short form of a podcast lasting just a few minutes and the restrictions of filming live in the streets of Paris or in the métro means that we are actually quite limited in terms of locations and access to examples within the timescale of filming.

4. Finally, I doubt we'd be able to keep up with Pierre-Benoît if we really let him run wild!!

You suggest that over study of grammar is what leads most would-be language-learners to failure, and I think I'd be the first to say that sitting for hours on end with a grammar book isn't likely to lead to oral fluency. However we don't intend WTLF to be a complete solution to language-learning, rather an alternative way to learn about some of the patterns of a language and encourage learners to seek out examples if they are in a location where the language is spoken. If they are not, then hopefully WTLF provides some examples of these patterns for learners who can't get this otherwise, and it provides the guidance for independent learners which we feel is important, and which learners have requested.

We are currently developing more video materials including a second series of Walk, Talk and Learn and some of these materials take a different approach, trying to address the different types of learners who use our materials. We'll be interested to hear your views.

]]>