Comments on: Interview with LingQ’s Steve Kaufmann

By: Interview with LingQ's Steve Kaufmann | Foreign Language Mastery | Learn A Foreign Language Now

Thu, 02 Dec 2010 16:17:42 +0000

[...] the original: Interview with LingQ's Steve Kaufmann | Foreign Language Mastery ← Learning Italian Is Simple and [...]

]]>

By: Amanda Moritz

Amanda Moritz — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 19:17:17 +0000

Yes, I suppose I have noticed this among other foreign friends of mine, but it was SO pronounced in this one professor.

Thanks for checking out Brainscape. We also have iPhone apps which cost money, but if you're interested, shoot me an email and I could send you a promotional code. Maybe you could love it

]]>

By: John Fotheringham

John Fotheringham — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 19:09:05 +0000

I have noticed the same thing among foreign friends and colleagues who for all intents and purposes are "fluent" in English but struggle based on the topic, their mood that particular day, their stress levels, etc. I have even noticed that my own ability to speak well in English fluctuates from day to day, and I am a native speaker! Just this morning, I was tripping over my own words during breakfast, and was drawing a blank on even simple words. It was probably due to only getting 3 hours of sleep…

Also, I checked out Brain Scape, and though I'm not a big fan of flashcards, hats off for creating a good "freemium" website with a clean interface and intuitive features.

]]>

By: Amanda Moritz

Amanda Moritz — Tue, 16 Nov 2010 17:55:53 +0000

I'm not sure what "number three" is, but it did get me thinking about something I noticed with my foreign professors in college. I took a seminar with a professor from Japan who has been living in America since, probably before I was born. His accent was VERY heavy, but I could mostly understand him when I talked to him. That alone got me wondering why some people get over their accents and some, like my professor, never do.
Than I noticed the more interesting thing. In conversation, he was very fluid in producing his English. He sounded fluent. But once he started explaining difficult or cutting-edge concepts (it was a neuroscience course on synaptic transmission and memory) he had to slow down, produced many of the sounds or "stutters" (i don't have the right word for it) that Japanese people typically produce (or any other language speaker) when they are translating in their head. My only explanation was that when he is doing his research, and thinking about it, he thinks about it in Japanese only. Then when he has to talk about it in English he is NOT fluent. EVEN THOUGH, he is fluent in other aspects of the English language.
When I thought about the fact that one person can say they are "fluent" in English…for the most part, but in a highly technical case they are not…well, what do you think? Are there other examples where people are both fluent and not?

Thanks!
Amanda Moritz
Social Marketing Manager
Brainscape, http://www.brain-scape.com

]]>

By: John Fotheringham

John Fotheringham — Thu, 12 Aug 2010 00:43:16 +0000

Tim,

I can't agree more with your statements. As Steve puts it, successful language learnings is more about "attitude" than "aptitude".

I have also noticed that my language learning speed increases with each subsequent foreign tongue, though I am nowhere near your number of languages. Way to go on reaching conversational fluency in 20 languages with passive comprehension in 35; that's a phenomenal accomplishment!

]]>

By: Tim Keeley

Tim Keeley — Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:21:32 +0000

I agree with your observation: "The second misconception is that you have to have a gift for learning languages." It is not so simple. It takes passion, dedication, flexibility, and observation of how the mind functions.

I am convinced that adults have much greater potential to learn languages faster than children. This is based on my experience (now past L20 in conversation and L35 in comprehension of the gist of a news broadcast) as well as observations and some academic research.

Each year my speed in acquiring languages increases. It took about one week to learn to Devanagari when studying Nepali. and Hindi.

]]>

By: jf

jf — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 15:37:37 +0000

Learning the meaning, pronunciation, and writing of Chinese characters all at the same time is quite a task, which is why I strongly recommend “Remembering the Kanji” (or “Remembering the Hanzi”) by James Heisig, in which you first learn the basic meaning and writing of characters, and later how they are pronounced. I discuss the book series more here: http://l2mastery.com/language-specific-tips/using...

Writing the characters over and over again is NOT, in my opinion, a good way to learn them. It may work for kids who are less averse to dull repetition, but most adults will simply give up. Adult brains have an amazing capacity for creative and analytical thinking; these tools (not rote memory) are what should be applied in learning Chinese/Japanese writing.

]]>

By: jf

jf — Thu, 22 Apr 2010 08:16:08 +0000

Thanks for your in-depth comment.

As you know, there exists a wide range of language learning advice out there, and I have endeavored to share what I consider to be the best and brightest here on Foreign Language Mastery. I consider Steve Kaufmann a voice of reason and simplicity in a world where something as natural and enjoyable as language learning has become a source of complexity, frustration, and even anxiety. I don't agree with everything Steve says, but do vehemently support the bulk of his opinions (at least when it comes to language learning…)

Here are my two cents on your language learning woes:

1) Based on your comments, you appear to go about language learning as a conscious, academic endeavor. In my experience as both a successful language learner and teacher, I find this to be the most common (and most grave) mistake. This explains why you can read a language, for example, but not understand it when spoken. Reading allows both the time and mental energy needed to translate to and from a language and apply grammatical rules. Listening to a native speaker affords neither. The good news is that languages are a physical skill, NOT a school subject requiring rote memory. We have evolved to discern highly complex language patterns given enough meaningful input over a long enough period of time. Which leads to the second point…

2) Language learning DOES take a lot of time. As Dr. Orlando Kelm pointed out in our interview, most people underestimate the time needed to reach fluency and give up long before they reach a modicum of fluency. Such folks then justify their inability to learn a foreign tongue with, "I'm just not good at languages." This is absolute BS. Any healthy adult can learn a foreign language given the proper time commitment, enough meaningful and comprehensible input, and the right attitude. In my experience, those who are allegedly gifted language learners are those that are most motivated to learn. Fueled by motivation and enjoyment, they end up spending more time doing the right things, and voila, they reach fluency fairly quickly.

3) Once you reach a certain threshold of input (between 1,000 and 5,000 hours) you should be able to go months or even years without hearing or speaking the language. Again, language is a physical skill akin to riding a bike. You can pick up where you left off after a short period of re-exposure (1 hour to 1 day in my experience). But if you go about studying a language academically, you WILL indeed need to start over, re-memorizing all the myriad grammar rules that do little more than describe the language.

4) With regard to learning Chinese characters, rote memorization (even when paired with Spaced Repetition) is not very effective. I highly recommend "Remembering the Kanji" (or "Remembering the Hanzi") by James Heisig. It is the only character learning system I have ever found effective for just about everyone. I discuss it more here: http://l2mastery.com/language-specific-tips/using...

5) Looking up unfamiliar Chinese characters was (until recently) a real problem. But with the advent of iPod Touches and Mac Books, this is no longer an issue. Both allow you to literally write new characters with your finger on the screen or trackpad. There is no longer a need to know what part of the character is the radical, count strokes, or guess at the PinYin or ZhuYin.

6) I think there HAVE been major breakthroughs in language learning, they are just not fully appreciated or understood. For starters, we have unprecedented access to free language learning input (including podcasts, YouTube, foreign news websites, etc.). And we now have the tools to carry around all this content with us wherever we go (with a 16 GB iPod Touch, I can carry all the language learning input I could possible consume, creating a virtual immersion environment for whatever languages I choose.)

7) You mentioned, "The trick of learning a language on your own is to reach the point where you can enjoy reading." I greatly enjoy reading, but don't think this is the main goal of language learning. Reading is one form of communication only, and should take a backseat to oral fluency. Most learners spend far too much time reading and not enough time listening, leading them to rely too much on their eyes and not enough on their ears. And again, it leads people to go about language learning in a far too academic way.

I hope this helps. Happy language learning!

]]>

By: otropogo

otropogo — Sun, 18 Apr 2010 13:09:12 +0000

I've done all the things Steve suggests, read, listen, study – for decades. And I still don't feel comfortable speaking or listening in French, and I still can't read Chinese. The part about it not taking a lot of time – well, he contradicts that part massively himself in his account of learning Chinese characters. What he doesn't mention is that you have to keep at it steadily. Leave it for a month or six, and you can start right at the beginning again.

I've watched at least a hundred movies with Mandarin audio, and maybe fifty French ones. It just doesn't get you there. There are people who have a gift, and you do need it.

But for the rest of us, what would help a lot is good software – decent learning programs like a Chinese version of Transparent Language, or digital Chinese animations with text that you can toggle between English, Chinese, pinyin, zhuyin, etc.. and for which you can look up word and phrase meanings and/or grammar explanations at the touch of a keystroke.

I've been looking for years, but can't find anything like that. Transparent language did something similar for Russian, French, German, Portuguese, Italian, even Latin IIRC, starting back in the days before CDs, but gave up when it came to Chinese. Then they dropped all the rest too.

The Chinese make some great PDA's with all kinds of wonderful features, but don't expect coherent English menus or documentation. And just try to find functional and affordable Chinese OCR program.

So, all in all. No, this isn't a realistic explanation of the joys of learning language. Having studied five major languages both at college and on my own, I can confirm that Chinese is much, much harder to learn – and for a number of reasons Steve doesn't even mention – first and foremost, the extreme difficulty of looking up an unfamiliar character.

The trick of learning a language on your own is to reach the point where you can enjoy reading. With Spanish, you can reach that point quite quickly with the help of bilingual texts.

With Chinese, I have shelves of bilingual texts (Chinese/French,Chinese/German,Chinese/English), and after three years of university courses, followed by several decades of intermittent study on my own, I still can't understand the Chinese, even with the translation underneath, and an electronic dictionary to look up the individual characters.

Pronunciation of Mandarin without tones may be easy, but recognizing spoken Mandarin certainly isn't. And understanding the spoken language is the hardest part of mastering any language. One may be able to read, write, and even speak French perfectly, and still be unable to follow an ordinary conversation.

There hasn't been any significant breakthrough in second language learning, despite all of the technological advantage provided by digital media and PCs. Yet strangely, this doesn't seem to be a subject of intense scientific study, as one would expect.

]]>

By: Tommy

Tommy — Sun, 04 Apr 2010 18:05:42 +0000

Steve's comments about learning characters in Mandarin also apply to Japanese Kanji, of course, particularly that at first it is very difficult to remember the sounds (tone, reading, etc) associated with each character you learn. I would just like to reiterate the importance of learning in context, because in Japanese every character has multiple readings based entirely on context and location in a compound word. So by writing the characters over and over, you gradually become familiar with the shapes and general "idea" of the characters, almost like in an art class; and then, as a separate task, by reading real texts, you can learn to associate the characters with sounds and meaning.

]]>