Comments on: Empty Compliments and the Language Learner

By: Poppy

Poppy — Thu, 08 Apr 2010 23:42:02 +0000

I enjoyed this article (although after a point I sensed some dead horse-beating), and completely agree with the comment by @CultureQuirk. Although not the only measure, a good decider or language competence is sheer effectiveness of communication.

The test of your spoken communication is how well it either brings you closer to some goal or how much what your conversational partner says flows naturally in response. While my Chinese is and will likely remain poor, my experience with German perfectly captures this truth of language learning. It's those moments after the conversation has ended and you realize in an unexpected moment of reflection that everything coming out of the mouths of all parties involved simply made sense. Your partner understood you, gave you appropriate feedback, and simply treated you as another (boring) speaker of your L2, not as a shaky L2 learner to be pitied. The goal should be to have people stop making a fuss over your language and just use it with you. What a great feeling that is when it first starts happening with frequency!

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By: Tommy

Tommy — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 05:20:14 +0000

Re: Japanese pronunciation being easier than other tonal languages. If we look at Phonetics, just one aspect of Pronunciation, in general, the number of sounds in Japanese is probably less than the that in tonal languages, and is therefore sess complicated, and easier to pronounce. Also, with a few exceptions, most of the phonemes in Japanese also exist in standard English, and so there is therefore some affinity among English-speaking mouths for Japanese…

But phonetics, despite all the research and methods for measuring and understanding human language sounds, are only one piece of pronunciation…

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By: Tommy

Tommy — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 05:19:58 +0000

Pronunciation is very relative, and I would say that it has mostly to do with the coordination of a fine-tuned ear, a limber mouth, a sense of performance, and general experience with a certain language or sound system as well as a variety of audiences. It is a part of our ability to make sounds, including vocal impersonations, singing, dynamic public speaking, etc, and so pronunciations skills intertwine with, rather than stem from, language and communication skills (sounds like Napolean Dynamite…).

I agree that in Asia people give a lot of empty compliments, but this is probably part of the "culture". It may be empty, but it is certainly not meaningless: it is a part of the larger social dialogue, and as a foreigner in Asia myself, I would not recommend fighting it just because it annoys you (or whatever it is that has motivated you to write this entry). Rather, I would suggest learning the dialogue, learning to play your part with gentilesse.

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By: John Fotheringham

John Fotheringham — Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:37:38 +0000

Thanks for the comment. I'll make sure Antonio sees it.

Having lived in Japan and Taiwan, I concur that Japanese is easier to pronounce correctly than tonal languages like Mandarin. But in the end, it is all about getting enough listening input and trying to imitate native speakers instead of trying to pronounce things how you "think" they should be pronounced based on book study.

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Tue, 09 Feb 2010 05:28:56 +0000

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By: @CultureQuirk

@CultureQuirk — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:30:49 +0000

This was a great article, a very interesting read. I definitely know what you mean with the "empty compliment" thing, and while that particular bit of culture doesn't bother me too much personally, as I tend to do the same thing and put a lot of importance in being polite, I can see where it leads to problems. It really annoys me when people think they are experts at a language when they're really not.

I'm currently learning Japanese, and when I went to Japan, I did get quite a few compliments by simply saying "How much does this cost?" or "Thanks for your help." Sure, it felt kind of nice to hear that, but the real compliment was when I *didn't* receive one. If I would ask for directions and they responded in perfectly natural Japanese, then I got a bit of a self esteem boost as they maybe thought I was living in Japan and not just a tourist with a phrase book. Of course, then the problem would be actually understanding the answer if their speech becomes too quick or advanced, but if nothing else I feel it would be a more valid compliment to my accent. (Then again, I think the Japanese accent is much, much easier to emulate than a tonal language like Chinese or Vietnamese!)

Like you said, the main thing is to keep studying and improving! Thanks for the insightful post.

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Americas Uninsured (Health Insurance) | Individual Health Insurance Iowa — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:47:45 +0000

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